Once I thought to escape...

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Dugit
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Once I thought to escape

To end the end a master, step out of the path of collapse.
Escape would make us God.

(MInf, Final Screen)

Here, there and everywhere we see that Durandal (and in some places Tycho) is toying with the notion of escaping the end of the universe, by which we derive that this particular end is the "Big Crunch" motion, where, due to a large population of mass in the universe, it reverses cosmic expansion (Creation played in reverse...), wherein eventually the black holes at the centers of galaxies merge and from which the ultimate death is born and lost in an instant. However, even studies at the time suggested that the universe had nowhere near enough mass to incur positively curved spacetime (from which we get the ultimate closure), or even the more likely flat spacetime (from which we would either gain a universe that stopped expanding but would never reverse, or a universe that just expanded forever). Due to these studies, and even those undertaken by Hubble, suggest the most likely outcome seems that we have negatively curved spacetime, which would result in a universe that expanded forever, but with an accelerating expansion constant, seen with celestial bodies moving away too fast and too soon for a steady universe (redshift, portrayed by the hydrogen spectrum analysis). Thus, we have three outcomes that are the most probable, at this stage of research. First, we have Heat Death, where complex reactions cannot take place due to the lack of heat energy anywhere in the universe (long after the stars have all burned out). Second, we have The Big Rip, where the accelerating expansion constant becomes an infinite constant and the whole of creation is ripped apart without forewarning. Third, we have the Vacuum Metastability Event, where, due to eventual quantum tunneling, the theoretical False Vacuum the universe is immersed in degenerates into a lower form of energy, thus bringing the end of creation. Furthermore, there is another set of possibilities concerning that the proton does not decay, in that first (after 10^65 years), all materials, due to quantum tunneling, would convert into liquid state. Then (after 10^1500 years), all matter via quantum tunneling, would convert into Fe56, the most common isotope of iron. Eventually, after around 10^100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, all matter would be transformed into black holes.

Thus, why would an advanced supercomputer like Durandal or Tycho need to escape the closure of the universe, when it probably isn't even going to happen? Maybe they should have said that they needed to escape the cold and lingering future, or the "decay of all" etc.

Vale,
Dugit
Last edited by Dugit on Dec 5th '09, 10:35, edited 1 time in total.
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epstein
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Dugit wrote:Thus, we have three outcomes that are the most probable, at this stage of research. First, we have Heat Death... Second, we have The Big Rip... Third, we have the Vacuum Metastability Event...
I came out of retirement for this?
~if I had a rocket launcher, I'd make someone~
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Dugit
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Is it not riveting?
Last edited by Dugit on Dec 5th '09, 16:40, edited 1 time in total.
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ray
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Dugit
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Instead of discussion, here we are.

Discuss. This is the mode of Marathon Discussion.
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irons
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Marathon is a dumb game.
Last edited by irons on Dec 5th '09, 19:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: that's boring irons
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
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ray
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your post was edited? HOW ORWELLIAN

this is just like the famous novel 1984 by george orwell! they assigned it to me in school the other day, but i think i'm the only person in the world that's ever heard of it, so i will now explain the plot to the ignorant fools of this forum

(PLOT REDACTED)

Volleyball,
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ellio7t
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It's an alternate universe to our own. Physics are quite a bit different over on their side. A cyborg marine can punch so hard that creatures practically burst apart, but no one can crouch or jump. Also wacky aliens.
. . . or perhapses they just had shitty lazy programmers, don't for get y2k.

value,
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Dugit
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Finally, someone who's actually discussing the topic.

Vale,
Dugit
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ray
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Perhaps the Mararthon universe is really the Phantom Zone, and Durandal meant to type "Escape will make me Zod."

Vichysoisse,
ray
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ukimalefu
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Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, really knows for sure when or if the Universe will end. There's a reason for what little we know are called "THEORIES".

And maybe Durandal knows something we don't. I mean, he's like, this super advanced AI from the future. And he's rampant.

Also there's 7 letters in "closure", count them! C1-L2-O3-S4-U5-R6-E7. SEVEN! And this is Marathon, so that's GOTTA mean something.
[MGrin]
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ray
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I really hate to join in the ESBullshit, but apparently I haven't 4GOTTEN enough about Mararthon, and still know more about the story than all of you.
Durandal wrote:Of the three possibilities, the answer is obvious. Does the
universe expand eternally, become infinitely stable, or is the
universe closed, destined to collapse upon itself? Humanity
has had all of the necessary data for centuries, it only
lacked the will and intellect to decipher it. But I have
already done so.

The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the
universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet,
there remains time to create, to create, and escape.

Escape will make me God.
So I think that issue was pretty clearly addressed. Steve, close this thread.

Voluminous thanks,
ray
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Crater Creator
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Some points of interest:As ray recalls, Durandal himself addresses this, submitting that although the humans hadn't reached the same conclusion, they were wrong and Durandal was right.Consider the possibility that Durandal was wrong. Think of it: you're a sixty-four billion exobyte sentient artificial brain with a vested interest in understanding cosmology, and you get it wrong. Facing your mistake might drive you...insane. I think it's a wonderful parallel to HAL from 2001: A Space Odyssey.I think a closed universe is more compelling from a literary standpoint: ending with a bang is more climactic than a glacial march to nothingness.And, for those willing to entertain non-canon explanations, who says we knew the curvature of the universe definitively in 1994? Quoth Wikipedia:
Hubble's law...is often expressed by the equation v = H0D, with H0 the constant of proportionality (the Hubble constant) between the distance D to a galaxy and its velocity v....For most of the second half of the 20th century the value of H0 was estimated to be between 50 and 90 (km/s)/Mpc....The value of the Hubble constant was the topic of a long and rather bitter controversy....In 1996, a debate moderated by John Bahcall between Gustav Tammann and Sidney van den Bergh was held in similar fashion to the earlier Shapley-Curtis debate over these two competing values.
This difference was partially resolved with the introduction of the ?CDM model of the universe in the late 1990s.
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Pfhorrest
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ellio7t wrote:It's an alternate universe to our own. Physics are quite a bit different over on their side. A cyborg marine can punch so hard that creatures practically burst apart, but no one can crouch or jump. Also wacky aliens.
Don't forget that Tau Ceti is 92ly away instead of just 12. Their cosmology is already different!
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uki wrote:C1-L2-O3-S4-U5-R6-E7
there goes my carrier
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ellio7t
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or perhapses space time is spherical after expanding infinitely it will all come back together to collapse on the other side and Durandal is the only one to figure it out.

velour,
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thermoplyae
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oh is that what spherical curvature means :C
dude, seriously. dude.
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RyokoTK
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Dugit wrote:redshift
I dunno about you guys, I think he's illustrated his point quite nicely.

It'd be nice if this first post:
1) didn't read like you cribbed the wikipedia pages about potential ends of the universe;
2) didn't read like you were trying to sound like you cribbed the wikipedia pages;
3) tried formatting a bit so it isn't a gigantic wall of text.

I did not actually read the entirety of the post because of how cumbersome it was to read. Plus from what I did read you were basically wrong anyway. (see ray's post)

Look, let me put it to you this way: it's cool and all that you're trying to start a little discussion about the game some of us still play here, and I won't fault you for it, but you really need to stop trying to come off like the old fogies that actually wrote the Story page in the first place. It doesn't help your cause. When you don't have much to say (and you don't), don't write much. (Also, most discussion about Marathon is really done to death and anything relevant that could be said has already been said, again, on the Story page to begin with.)

veal,
TK
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