Exceeding 1024 polygons

[MoppyPuppy]

I've played some of the newer scenarios out there lately, and I have to ask, have they found a way to exceed 1024 polygons in a map?
Because all of these, EXTREME detail scenario levels are insane.
Scenarios like Apotheosis, TGI, And the Portal of Sigma.
Mostly Apotheosis and TGI. There are NO flat walls. and yet they make huge ass levels. Apotheosis had huge ass rooms where one square room would consist of what would seem to be a hundred polygons inserted simply to make the ceiling look cool. Even the floors underneath the water were detailed with tons of polys where 1 or 2 would have probably been fine.

I'm not saying "detail oriented" polygons are bad, but I'm convinced that there has to be more than 1024 polygons in some of these scenario levels.
Rubicon is also an example, how is it that they can make so much detail into the walls and ceilings AND create caves with hundreds of polys?

I'm not going to count the polys as I play, can someone fill me in on the exceeding 1024 capability if it even exists?

[irons]

The actual polygon limit is somewhere between 4096 and 32768, depending on how many lines/points you use per polygon (4096 assumes all polygons are 8-sided and no polygons are connected to any others; 32768 is the largest number that is allowed as a poly index for the map file format). Forge has a built-in limit (1024) that you can't exceed. I know for a fact that TGI was made in Forge, and therefore still obeys the 1024 limit. I'm almost completely certain that all of the other scenarios you listed used Forge as well. I think this only makes these scenarios more amazing: they're incredibly rich, even with the limits imposed.

To remove this limit, there needs to exist and editor that ignores it (Aleph One already ignores it). Pfhorge can go higher than 1024, but it is no longer developed and I can't stand its 2D editor (Its really buggy is a given). Our best hope is Thermoplyae's Smithy project, which is making steady progress, but which is still incomplete.

[treellama]

Rubicon is also an example, how is it that they can make so much detail into the walls and ceilings AND create caves with hundreds of polys?

Unlike you, they're good at what they do.

All those scenarios were made in Forge, so all have 1024 polygons or fewer. But I suspect you knew this and are up to your usual trolling.

[MoppyPuppy]

Unlike you, they're good at what they do.

All those scenarios were made in Forge, so all have 1024 polygons or fewer. But I suspect you knew this and are up to your usual trolling.

ANYWAY, I have one more question.
This refers to Rubicon more than anything, but also for TGI a little bit.
I've noticed, mostly with Pfhor troopers, that they've seemed to found a way to make more than 2 colors of Pfhor Troopers even though theres only a Minor and Major slot in Forge.

How is this done?

I've checked Rubicon's shapes file, and whats really interesting to me is that they have the GI Bobs in the same slot as the Pfhor trooper, but I still cant figure out how you can have these two monsters fighting each other on the same map if they're in the same slot.
In TGI they had green, purple, and even blue Pfhor on the same map, sometimes fighting the Gray ones.

Again, how is this done?

[treellama]

It's called a physics file

[RyokoTK]

Color tables in the shapes file are called by the physics file to determine the colors of each monster.

[MoppyPuppy]

The part I still don't understand is when applying monsters in Forge.
You only have a Minor and Major slot don't you?

Like in TGI.
How do you let Forge know which troopers are Green and Purple. (Minor and Major)
And which ones you want Gray?

[RyokoTK]

If you click on a monster name in the sidebar, you can copy-and-paste the entire monster information into another existing monster slot if you don't plan on using that monster in a given level. Then you can just change the color (and appropriate stats) of your newly-copied monster.

Blue troopers in TGI actually occupy the Tiny Fighter slot or something like that, because I never used Tiny Fighters.

[MoppyPuppy]

Oh.
I think I understand now.

[irons]

Legendary.

[logan]

Far from it.

[Shadowbreaker]

The actual polygon limit is somewhere between 4096 and 32768, depending on how many lines/points you use per polygon (4096 assumes all polygons are 8-sided and no polygons are connected to any others; 32768 is the largest number that is allowed as a poly index for the map file format). Forge has a built-in limit (1024) that you can't exceed. I know for a fact that TGI was made in Forge, and therefore still obeys the 1024 limit. I'm almost completely certain that all of the other scenarios you listed used Forge as well. I think this only makes these scenarios more amazing: they're incredibly rich, even with the limits imposed.

To remove this limit, there needs to exist and editor that ignores it (Aleph One already ignores it). Pfhorge can go higher than 1024, but it is no longer developed and I can't stand its 2D editor (Its really buggy is a given). Our best hope is Thermoplyae's Smithy project, which is making steady progress, but which is still incomplete.

Though I've never taken the time to properly merge and play it, I've succeeded in making a 1024+ polygon map using Pfhorge by using its handy map copy and paste abilities on two large maps. Some restrictions still apply though, like 16 tags, 384 platforms, etc. but I guess you could get creative.

EDIT: Also, most highly detailed maps aren't really that long in terms of how long it takes to beat them if you know how

Levels like 'Honk if youre an underpaid cyborg' are relatively undetailed in comparison to many of the other levels, and typically take years to beat. Levels like 'Beg Borrow and Steal' and the original 'Not *this* again' on the other hand are as detailed and intricate as fuck, but are much less linear than Honk and can be beaten in a matter of seconds if you know where to go.

[Volcanon]

Maps with a lot of polys take friggin forever to make too.
I've made 600-poly single-player maps that take a grand total of three minutes to finish.

[RyokoTK]

I've made 600-poly single-player maps that take a grand total of three minutes to finish.

If you mean for the player, I have two ways to remedy that, because I have a habit of putting 150+ polys into a single room:
- Reuse major rooms. If you've got a non-linear level in mind, this goes without saying. If not, have the player cross the room two or three times, but from different angles. Though it may seem repetitive, in my experience more people are impressed that the level feels more like a legitimate area than just a series of rooms. If you can have battles each time the player enters, that's even better.
- Make the level really hard so people die a lot and take more time to finish it.

[ktaur]

i've been working on a map for a number of years now (add some things once in awhile, then put it down for several months), it's extremely detailed, and i've recently run into the problem of exceeding the 1024 poly limit. However, rather than the program warning me when i've reached the limit, as i'm told it should, when i get to about 975 polys, i enter visual mode and things get severely whacked out (platforms, in particular, become smeary messes). When i delete the polys i added, things ostensibly go back to normal. Could this be a point-limit issue?

Also, as i'm certainly not going to be able to complete this veritable monolith, given Forge's limitations, has anybody had any success combining two more-or-less complete maps in Pfhorge?

Thanks...

[Cathunter]

i've been working on a map for a number of years now (add some things once in awhile, then put it down for several months), it's extremely detailed, and i've recently run into the problem of exceeding the 1024 poly limit. However, rather than the program warning me when i've reached the limit, as i'm told it should, when i get to about 975 polys, i enter visual mode and things get severely whacked out (platforms, in particular, become smeary messes). When i delete the polys i added, things ostensibly go back to normal. Could this be a point-limit issue?

Also, as i'm certainly not going to be able to complete this veritable monolith, given Forge's limitations, has anybody had any success combining two more-or-less complete maps in Pfhorge?

Thanks...

I doubt it is a point or polygon limitation and in Forge you're not going to hit the 32 unit vertical limit.

Combining maps in Pfhorge is a matter of cut & paste though it won't snap to the grid when you paste. From personal experience don't try opening a Forge map or transferring material from a Forge maps with Pfhorge if you've used the text tool; it seems to do funny things with platform elevation for some reason.

Cathunter

[Kidtofu]

If someone is going to make a level with more than 1024 polygons, im very skeptical about playing it. . .

O_O

[Shadowbreaker]

If someone is going to make a level with more than 1024 polygons, im very skeptical about playing it. . .

O_O

I intend to create one, so sit tight.

[Winter_Wolf]

Its funny, but nearly ten of the 25 maps used in Pathways into Darkness have more than 1024 polys (the highest I've seen so far is 1094 I believe).

Oh and Shadowbreaker, I guess you're going to use LUA visual mode to texture those maps you intend to make?

[The Man]

Either that or he could just build them in pieces and merge them with Pfhorge or Chisel. Actually, finding out that 1024 isn't hard-coded into the engine is rather fortuitous, as it should enable me to complete a few maps I was running close to the poly limit on without splitting them into pieces as I've been forced to do with previous maps where I reached that limitation.