Marathon: Aeon

[Shadowbreaker]

I just gave this scenario a try, and had a few things to say about it.


My main problem was that 3 of the levels didn't work, at least for me. I think the problem is that you have some 256x256 sized textures in your sewage set:

[attachment=4458:Picture_4.png]

Another major problem I had was the fact that the enclosed spaces that make up a lot of the maps make you vulnerable to instagibs from teleporting enemies, namely troopers. Examples of this are numerous on the first level, and the big circular room on Pfherrous Oxide with the chip in it. I am playing this on TC, but it still should be beatable.



I like the way you use polygons for detail though, rather than just fancy textures and repetitive themes. However, I suggest you use much larger polygons and bigger spaces when making these; at the moment your scenario seems to consist of tiny rooms with millions of polygons in them. It gets claustrophobic sometimes, like here:

[attachment=4459:Picture_7.png]

That place just seems really cramped, I think you should focus more on making the level longer and more playable than overly detailing everything like that. The second level was open and spacious, so the player has a lot of breathing room to fight the battle in.

[Dugit]

I just gave this scenario a try, and had a few things to say about it.
My main problem was that 3 of the levels didn't work, at least for me. I think the problem is that you have some 256x256 sized textures in your sewage set

Don't work? Do they just crash, dead? Or freeze? They work fine for me, although this isn't the first time I've said that.
I think TL would know whether 256x256 textures work, but I did get these from an older texture pack.
3 levels? Maybe for Our Lives a Mimicry and Rise and Fall (because I remember retexturing them with the 256x256 ones), but what's the third?

Another major problem I had was the fact that the enclosed spaces that make up a lot of the maps make you vulnerable to instagibs from teleporting enemies, namely troopers. Examples of this are numerous on the first level, and the big circular room on Pfherrous Oxide with the chip in it. I am playing this on TC, but it still should be beatable.
I like the way you use polygons for detail though, rather than just fancy textures and repetitive themes. However, I suggest you use much larger polygons and bigger spaces when making these; at the moment your scenario seems to consist of tiny rooms with millions of polygons in them. It gets claustrophobic sometimes, like here

Pfherrous Oxide? I've already bought it down a couple of pegs, but I play on Normal for testing, so there may still be a problem. I should make the troopers spawn on the right of the shadow room, so the player can at least get out. I think I put a 2x canister in there.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Eternal Lucid Dream. There's a lot of instagib spots that I'm quite ashamed of by now that I'm going to size down. The troopers teleporting behind you will not be the black-emblazoned ones, they're just too difficult, even on Normal.

Polygons for detail? Thanks. Then you'll love the next level.
Larger spaces? The next level has them too.
Claustrophobia is deliberate in Our Lives a Mimicry, in order to set the scene of a war-torn planet, but I think I should go over for a retexture one more time in the near future. And add some more sounds.

That place just seems really cramped, I think you should focus more on making the level longer and more playable than overly detailing everything like that. The second level was open and spacious, so the player has a lot of breathing room to fight the battle in.

The first two levels are intermediate, and just there for plot purposes, but I see what you mean about longevity. I think I'll veer away from intermediate levels permanently from now on.

Thanks for the critique, Shadowbreaker!

[MoppyPuppy]

I just gave this scenario a try, and had a few things to say about it.
My main problem was that 3 of the levels didn't work, at least for me. I think the problem is that you have some 256x256 sized textures in your sewage set:

[attachment=4458:Picture_4.png]

Another major problem I had was the fact that the enclosed spaces that make up a lot of the maps make you vulnerable to instagibs from teleporting enemies, namely troopers. Examples of this are numerous on the first level, and the big circular room on Pfherrous Oxide with the chip in it. I am playing this on TC, but it still should be beatable.
I like the way you use polygons for detail though, rather than just fancy textures and repetitive themes. However, I suggest you use much larger polygons and bigger spaces when making these; at the moment your scenario seems to consist of tiny rooms with millions of polygons in them. It gets claustrophobic sometimes, like here:

[attachment=4459:Picture_7.png]

That place just seems really cramped, I think you should focus more on making the level longer and more playable than overly detailing everything like that. The second level was open and spacious, so the player has a lot of breathing room to fight the battle in.

Well I like it.

I think this one cramp room provides one thing I like most of any scenario out there.
ATMOSPHERE.

[Shadowbreaker]

Well I like it.

I think this one cramp room provides one thing I like most of any scenario out there.
ATMOSPHERE.

It's possible to be un-cramped and still have atmosphere. At lot of scenarios have atmospheric, yet comfortably large rooms. This room starts you out with rebellion health and a trooper up the stairs to doesn't shoot grenades, and being all cramped it doesn't give you enough space to dodge him. Also, that double door there just kind of kills the whole scene.

[Dugit]

It's possible to be un-cramped and still have atmosphere. At lot of scenarios have atmospheric, yet comfortably large rooms. This room starts you out with rebellion health and a trooper up the stairs to doesn't shoot grenades, and being all cramped it doesn't give you enough space to dodge him. Also, that double door there just kind of kills the whole scene.

Who doesn't shoot grenades? The only thing up the stairs is a 2x canister. I was thinking of making the door open on a platform trigger near the terminal, so it's impossible to try and fight off a large group of fighters and troopers without at least some protection. I thought that the Assault Rifle was also pretty visible from the 2x canister pick-up point.

Which double door? You mean the Jjarro one? Yeah, I know it's not that canon. And it activates only once. I think I'll (in my retexture) replace it with something more fitting.

And about the 256x256 textures- how do they... not work? Leaves untextured surfaces? It works fine for me...

[Shadowbreaker]

Who doesn't shoot grenades? The only thing up the stairs is a 2x canister. I was thinking of making the door open on a platform trigger near the terminal, so it's impossible to try and fight off a large group of fighters and troopers without at least some protection. I thought that the Assault Rifle was also pretty visible from the 2x canister pick-up point.

[attachment=4462:Picture_3.png]

You have two Troopers here on TC. They guard the health; both the red and the yellow. They start out by machinegunning you, rather than shooting dodgable grenades until you get closer. Trooper Machinegun is way more deadly than the grenades.

It might be better to just start in a different place.

And about the 256x256 textures- how do they... not work? Leaves untextured surfaces? It works fine for me...

Maybe they work on Windows and not Mac. But if they don't work on my computer, then they probably don't work on others like mine. Just make them 128x128.

Prime Target had 256x256 and 64x64 textures, but they worked in proportion to the 128x128; i.e. the 256x256 took up 4 WU walls. I am guessing they don't work that way in Aleph One. Infact, Anvil forced them to 128x128, no matter what size you pasted in.

[Dugit]

You have two Troopers here on TC. They guard the health; both the red and the yellow. They start out by machinegunning you, rather than shooting dodgable grenades until you get closer. Trooper Machinegun is way more deadly than the grenades.

It might be better to just start in a different place.

...now that's curious. Firstly, there aren't any red troopers on that level to begin with (and since their not in a minor-major system, TC won't affect them in terms of rank). Second, I tried Our Lives a Mimicry (very same beta copy) on TC, and this is what I got:

I wouldn't ever put troopers against you when you only have rebellion health. I didn't.

Maybe they work on Windows and not Mac. But if they don't work on my computer, then they probably don't work on others like mine. Just make them 128x128.

Prime Target had 256x256 and 64x64 textures, but they worked in proportion to the 128x128; i.e. the 256x256 took up 4 WU walls. I am guessing they don't work that way in Aleph One. Infact, Anvil forced them to 128x128, no matter what size you pasted in.

I'm on a Mac. And quite an old one, too.
So... they're outsized to 2x2 WU spaces? Can you provide a screenshot?
I'll start resizing today, but I doubt I'll be able to find all of them, especially all of them in the newest (incomplete) level.

Edit: I think this is one for consultation with Treellama. :/

[Shadowbreaker]

Now that you posted that I was able to determine that the problem must've been a physics model I had loaded. I am getting the Bobs now. The physics must've somehow given me a machinegun trooper. The trooper problem is my fault. But, it shouldn't have happened. You aughta merge physics into your maps, otherwise physics overlaps might happen again.

I'm on a Mac. And quite an old one, too.
So... they're outsized to 2x2 WU spaces? Can you provide a screenshot?
I'll start resizing today, but I doubt I'll be able to find all of them, especially all of them in the newest (incomplete) level.

Edit: I think this is one for consultation with Treellama. :/

In the screenshot I posted of your Shapes file, I have selected one of the 9 256x256 pixel textures, the rest of which are right after the one I selected. Just copy the textures into your graphics editing programing, shrink their dimensions to 128x128, and paste them back in. Thats it! No need to retexture anything. The Prime Target thing is totally irrelevant to what Aleph One does.

[Dugit]

OK, thanks Shadowbreaker. I thought I did merge a physics file with Our Lives, but I guess I didn't. I'll get a resizing done tonight.

Edit: Done.

[chinkeeyong]

I had a go at the Aeon demo that's currently on Simplici7y, so here's some comments.

Your architecture's very detailed and interesting, which is nice, but that's offset by the fact that it's incredibly cramped (as Shadowbreaker mentioned). The inconsistent lighting and the structural eye candy also makes it difficult to tell what the layout of the area is or where to go next, since rooms are monochrome and all the doors are basically the same.

Having so many different rock textures seriously detracts from your natural areas. I'd suggest going over all of them with just one texture and using differential lighting for the rest.

Enemies and Bobs teleport in pretty much at random around me when I walk into rooms, which is annoying and forces me to go down a life bar just to take stock of my surroundings. I can't see pickups on the ground, weapons teleport in basically at random and I ran out of ammo twice in the demo. The different-colored enemies also make it difficult for me to tell which are minor, which are major and which are new kinds of Pfhor altogether.

Just my two cents.

[ChristTrekker]

OK, so you can't really run OpenGL (Shader) anyway.

The next Aleph One should have some speed increases for very old computers like yours.

Holy moly?is my dualie 1.8 G5 going to be insufficient to run A1 soon? I've always liked A1 because, due to its origin, I could always be fairly confident it would run well on older/low-end machines. (Though I've accepted the fact that running on my Quadra 650 is no longer an option. )

Maybe it's a good thing to add 5-year-old features to a 15-year-old game engine to keep it "modern" and cool, but there's part of me that's sad for the "loss". OTOH, as long as networking is compatible, you can always build an older version for the older machines and still have fun. But as soon as networking gets a change that's incompatible, you have to be content with playing solo. Or...how hard would it be to backport networking updates?

[treellama]

Holy moly?is my dualie 1.8 G5 going to be insufficient to run A1 soon?

That's a complex question. In terms of speed, the original trilogy still runs just fine on my G4/500, which is the slowest PowerPC I have that can run Mac OS X 10.4.

In terms of minimum required OS, well, this is partly Apple's and partly SDL's fault. The latest Xcode tools can't build for anything older than 10.4. SDL no longer supports 10.3 and earlier. It wouldn't surprise me if Xcode in 10.7 doesn't support PowerPC builds at all.

Nothing in Aleph One's design precludes compiling it for 10.2 (at the moment), but so few people use it that it wasn't worth the time for us to keep a build system running. We would happily post PowerPC 10.2 binaries if someone else built them. It should still be possible to build SDL and the other requirements from source to target the 10.2 SDK. We just need some help.

Similarly, I just don't have time to fix the classic Mac OS builds. I believe it should still be possible (except for networking, which requires modern thread support).

Maybe it's a good thing to add 5-year-old features to a 15-year-old game engine to keep it "modern" and cool, but there's part of me that's sad for the "loss". OTOH, as long as networking is compatible, you can always build an older version for the older machines and still have fun. But as soon as networking gets a change that's incompatible, you have to be content with playing solo. Or...how hard would it be to backport networking updates?

Well, I don't know that you've lost anything. Aleph One is a little slower than Marathon 2, but it's not that bad. It's still playable on 200 MHz class machines.

Now, maybe you can't play the newest scenarios because the designers go overboard. Because the new machines can (barely) run 1024+ polygon monstrosities, it seems like mappers are forgetting their roots: negative space, efficient polygon usage. Making a map fun, fast, and good looking is a balance exercise it seems fewer and fewer mappers are capable of or willing to do. Net maps are going the same way, to the extent where I recommend a 1 GHz to play online.

But, all your old favorites should work just fine.

The networking will probably change in the next couple releases, and everyone with Mac OS X 10.2 and Windows < 2000 will be left out. That's the price of progress, I guess. There's always Linux

[Dugit]

1024+ polygon monstrosities

Hmm... the next level literally only just works... with a little over 2500 polygons. FPS is fine, though, and no problems otherwise.

had a go at the Aeon demo that's currently on Simplici7y, so here's some comments.

Your architecture's very detailed and interesting, which is nice, but that's offset by the fact that it's incredibly cramped (as Shadowbreaker mentioned). The inconsistent lighting and the structural eye candy also makes it difficult to tell what the layout of the area is or where to go next, since rooms are monochrome and all the doors are basically the same.

Having so many different rock textures seriously detracts from your natural areas. I'd suggest going over all of them with just one texture and using differential lighting for the rest.

Enemies and Bobs teleport in pretty much at random around me when I walk into rooms, which is annoying and forces me to go down a life bar just to take stock of my surroundings. I can't see pickups on the ground, weapons teleport in basically at random and I ran out of ammo twice in the demo. The different-colored enemies also make it difficult for me to tell which are minor, which are major and which are new kinds of Pfhor altogether.

Just my two cents.

The crampiness on the first level is there for atmosphere, but I've no feeble excuses for Pfherrous Oxide- that just happens to be a bad level. I just run in and run out. It works for me on any difficultly level.
It looks like I'll be going over Our Lives again . Although I must ask- what do you think of the new sounds file? I think the new sounds are working pretty well.
Which demo are you playing? If it's 1.0, then I don't blame you. 1.1/1.15 have easier ambushes on both Eternal and Pfherrous. On Eternal, all the black-emblazoned "heavy troopers" have been removed from behind the player and replaced with (at best) a major trooper, although it's usually a minor. The ambush at the flight of stairs after the saver has three minors before the player now, as opposed to two majors and a heavy before. In Pfherrous, I've also repositioned the ambushes. It's now ridiculously easy just to run in, get the chip and run out, taking a left after the door and avoiding the fighter/cyborg party altogether, leaving you with a sweet near-full or even full 3x bar for Rise and Fall.

For troopers? It might take a while to figure out with the color schemes changing frequently (although there'll be no more changes after Rise and Fall). On levels that aren't in the Ch'a'sk chapter, turquoise is minor trooper, a dark teal is a major trooper, and red is a heavy trooper. In Ch'a'sk levels, gray troopers are either major or minor (it should be pretty obvious from their pitches and aggressiveness), and black troopers are the heavy ones.

There's going to be a green sniper trooper in the next level.

[Dis]

I just run in and run out.

Having to do that is perhaps the worst thing about your scenario. You shouldn't have to, combat would be much less tedious if monsters would actually activate without you having to jump right into their lines of fire.

[chinkeeyong]

Yeah, I'm playing 1.0.

[Dugit]

Meet the problemisimo. I am now posting via an iPod Touch.

Something has gone badly wrong. I won't go into all the detail, but some white-on-black text popped up onto my screen (everything else was frozen), saying things like CORRUPT STRING and ending in 4ERMINATED (the 4 is deliberate- it actually said that). I had to force-shutdown, and now my computer won't turn on again, at least properly. The lights go on but nobody's home (the light on the tower flashes three times periodically). From the stuff that popped up, it seems more indicative of a processor or graphics card failure. Progress on Aeon will obviously have to be halted until a solution has been found. I just hope I haven't lost all my progress on The Asphodel Meadows.

[treellama]

01011000101101001111002

[Dugit]

Aha! Troubleshooting at apple.com (noting the triple flashes) says that I may have incompatible RAM. Or something of that ilk.

[thermoplyae]

BAD RAMS was tl's runner up joke

[Dugit]

Crisis averted.

[Dis]

Asphodel Meadows? Come on, that's not even that funny.

[Dugit]

Crisis averted.

Dammit, I hate it when this happens.

Crisis not averted.

[treellama]

BAD RAMS

[patrick]

BAD RAMS

[Dugit]

All is well once more. For sure, now.

Asphodel Meadows? Come on, that's not even that funny.

?