Secret project coming soon

[Nitocris]

How's this?

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=a86a474...be6ba49b5870170

[effigy]

Excellent, thank you, sir!

[thedoctor45]

Thanks, this build works great - I couldn't find any bugs as of now... Gameplay is more balanced too.
one thing that I miss however is he marine outfit... did you remove it or do you need a higher level to access it?

PS: can you please send me the icon file now so that I can apply it to the executable?

looking forward to more content and (hopefully) a 3rd person hack..

thanks for all this, you're the man!


cheers
thedoctor45

[Nitocris]

Thanks, this build works great - I couldn't find any bugs as of now... Gameplay is more balanced too.
one thing that I miss however is he marine outfit... did you remove it or do you need a higher level to access it?

PS: can you please send me the icon file now so that I can apply it to the executable?

looking forward to more content and (hopefully) a 3rd person hack..

thanks for all this, you're the man!
cheers
thedoctor45

About that: Anyone having any thoughts to weapon costs and power?

I removed it. You're not supposed to play as a Marine on level one. Never fear, Marines will soon be available, and boast some kick-ass gear.

As soon as I get a green light and people can't find any more bugs, I'll make an icon and send it to you. It will be lost with each new build.

It all rests on those goddamn shoulder pads. They look awful up close and I can't make them look consistently good.
I wonder if I will chicken out and just have them stick right out...

[L'howon]

Perhaps just include them in the model skin? Giant shoulder pads aren't really seen in game, but they are there... why not just make them flat and be done with it.

[Nitocris]

Perhaps just include them in the model skin? Giant shoulder pads aren't really seen in game, but they are there... why not just make them flat and be done with it.

I tried including them in the skin, but it doesn't work, because of how the shoulder is moved and rotated with different weapon classes. In real life the shoulder pad would have been in the same position when the upper arm would rotate, but the texture makes it rotate with the arm and look generally rubbish. It's the same with the model shoulders. They turn up in strange places and angles as they follow the rotation of the arm...

EDIT:
On another note, I'm experimenting with having fusion bolts disintegrating enemies like the Rubicon Enforcer rifle.
Cons: That's not how it works in the original games
Pros: It removes dead bodies from the map, which would allow me to make levels were the player faces endless hordes of enemies without crashing the game. It's also pretty neat, actually.

Any thoughts?

[CryoS]

that sounds pretty wicked if you ask me.


also. i had a simmilar idea for your ealier project but i still think it would we awesome to have a map were you fight devlins... or simmilar monsters, a dark cavey map with devlins hiding here nad there, minimmal lightning and you always fear that there is one around the corner waiting to charge you
im just saying its a thing id like to play in this.
pros and cons?

[Winter_Wolf]

I just played the most recent version of Marathon: Freedom. Here are my notes:

- The "God of Dread" mission text is still a bit cut off. Not a big deal.
- The "Beaucrat Enforcer" on the 2nd mission should be changed to "Willful Class" to fit with the Aggregrate Class.
- The "Skeeran" rifle for the Enforcer fires no projectile on my system. S'pht still disintegrate into a nice looking pile of blue goo but a projectile would help me aim.
- The Enforcer class is awesome but is weak because of its limited visual range (screen limitations). The Enforcer is slow but has excellent firepower and range. A player cannot utilize the Enforcer's strengths because of the player's inability to see farther than a S'pht can shoot. A possible fix is the FPS hack that has been under discussion. I personally would not worry about the graphics because I think the graphics are fine either way. FPS Enforcer would be simply amazing I think.

Otherwise, this version is pretty bug free and simply excellent. I love Marathon: Freedom! The Enforcer, despite my issues with him, is my favorite class.

So, suggestions:

Include a FPS Hack
Change "Beaucrat Enforcer" to "Willful Class"
Add projectile to "Skeeran Rifle" Enforcer
Add more scenery to your 2nd mission. Compared to the other two it lacks some atmosphere even though its my favorite level (big battles are fun).

On future additions:

The Fusion Pistol idea sounds great! It doesn't work like that in the original game but it makes sense and so I don't think there will be objections. I really just want to fight waves of enemies...

On a similar note, why not do this for the Enforcer? Change the Scatter Gun and N-Cannon so that they turn enemies into ashes (similar to disintegration but in a more fiery way). This would allow for Enforcer "defend" missions. Throughout the Marathon series Enforcers engage in a vast number of battles where they hold back waves of enemies. 2nd level of Marathon Infinity they hold back the Aggregate Class troops trying to take over the ship. They hold back rebelling Hulks in Marathon Eternal. They battle S'pht and Robert Blake's BoBs in Marathon Durandal. Honestly, Enforcers need a defend mission!

On a whole, excellent work CubicCircle. Marathon Freedom is great.

[L'howon]

I like some of Winter_Wolf's ideas, but as an addon, the "Skeeran Rifle" Should probably just be changed to the "Rubicon Alien Rifle." Most everyone will know what that means, certainly more so than the "Skeeran Rifle".

[Nitocris]

So, suggestions:

Include a FPS Hack
Change "Beaucrat Enforcer" to "Willful Class"
Add projectile to "Skeeran Rifle" Enforcer
Add more scenery to your 2nd mission. Compared to the other two it lacks some atmosphere even though its my favorite level (big battles are fun).

On future additions:

The Fusion Pistol idea sounds great! It doesn't work like that in the original game but it makes sense and so I don't think there will be objections. I really just want to fight waves of enemies...

On a similar note, why not do this for the Enforcer? Change the Scatter Gun and N-Cannon so that they turn enemies into ashes (similar to disintegration but in a more fiery way). This would allow for Enforcer "defend" missions. Throughout the Marathon series Enforcers engage in a vast number of battles where they hold back waves of enemies. 2nd level of Marathon Infinity they hold back the Aggregate Class troops trying to take over the ship. They hold back rebelling Hulks in Marathon Eternal. They battle S'pht and Robert Blake's BoBs in Marathon Durandal. Honestly, Enforcers need a defend mission!

On a whole, excellent work CubicCircle. Marathon Freedom is great.

Nice to hear things are working out well.

"Bureaucrat" was a desperate choice to disambiguate the M1 enforcer from its M2 counterpart, which I will try to include ASAP.
Any suggestions as to what you could call them? They are so dissimilar that you could only assume they fill different roles, and the M2 enforcer, with its body covered in armor, seemed more geared for combat.

Having a visible projectile on the Rubicon rifle would be pretty pointless, as it is instantaneous (as opposed to every other projectile). You still wouldn't see at. Furthermore, it is the single most powerful shot in the game to date and 100% accurate, it would have to be very expensive if it was made any easier to use.

Yes, it is a bit bland. I don't really know what scenery to add, though. Don't want to take too many artistic licenses.

Hmm.. well, I could make a special defend class enforcer that can only use the Rubicon rifle. I can make as many classes as I like.

Regarding your visibility concern... I think I will be able to make an item that increases visual range. I shall try that out. Of course, you will be smaller on screen, so it would be some sort of trade-off.

@Lh'owon: Has anyone figured out why I call it that?

@CryoS: Yes, well... first I need a Devlin model. It's not low priority though. Maybe the phase after this one.

I've figured out the S'pht software enhancement Durandal alluded to. Now I can teleport enemies and friends into the field without the use of teleporters. This is true, I was hitherto reliant on a teleporter for teleportation. Now, you can expect more enemies to get in your way.

Also, enjoy this montage of new weapons.

[effigy]

Sweet. It'll Burn, Burn, Burn!

I finally had a chance to play 0.36 last night. I think it's looking good, nothing too major to report.

> Like Winter_Wolf points out a part of the letter A gets cut off @1024x768 in the God of Dread description.

> I just reached a level 3. Should I be using 3 credit points to respawn?

> I'm having a hard time aiming with the keyboard, but I think I'm getting the hang of it. Would you consider adding sensitivity adjustments for rotation? Also, something about the mouse feels awkward. I think it's needing to drag it to turn...is there any chance of having behavior similar to Never Winter Nights or Aleph One?

I'll be waiting for that flame thrower with bated breath.

[Nitocris]

> Like Winter_Wolf points out a part of the letter A gets cut off @1024x768 in the God of Dread description.

I'm thinking of redesigning the entire title screen. If I add a lot of levels, eventually they wouldn't fit anyway, so I might just make a level select slider instead. Haven't gotten around to it yet. Any operation that could fuck stuff up I dread to perform.

> I just reached a level 3. Should I be using 3 credit points to respawn?

You COULD at least. It's up to you. Using one credit will allow you to spawn 10 times, whilst 3 would only allow you to spawn three.

> I'm having a hard time aiming with the keyboard, but I think I'm getting the hang of it. Would you consider adding sensitivity adjustments for rotation? Also, something about the mouse feels awkward. I think it's needing to drag it to turn...is there any chance of having behavior similar to Never Winter Nights or Aleph One?

I am unfamiliar with what you are referring to. I've not player the former, and am too hardcore to use mouse when playing Marathon.

[effigy]

You COULD at least. It's up to you. Using one credit will allow you to spawn 10 times, whilst 3 would only allow you to spawn three.

Ok, I wasn't sure if it was intentional.

I am unfamiliar with what you are referring to. I've not player the former, and am too hardcore to use mouse when playing Marathon.

I think I gave a bad description. Never Winter Nights actually uses the mouse (with a visible cursor) to move the view. At the moment if I use mouse mode I have to drag the mouse so far left or right that it's pretty ineffective to use. Maybe higher mouse sensitivity would help, but I was thinking that the character could follow the mouse vs. being pushed by it (so to speak). Could you make the character always face the direction of the mouse cursor (no cross hair intended)?

Perhaps I'm just not knowledgeable enough for this suggestion, or maybe it's all in the sensitivity (I don't know).

[Winter_Wolf]

The M1 and M2 Enforcers are basically equal to each other in health and speed. The only difference is weapon choice and looks. There is no need to distinguish between them as classes. Make an option like you have for the BoBs to change their looks. Instead of choosing between short and long hair make it a choice between Tau Ceti Enforcers and Lh'owon Enforcers.

Ah okay, I did not realize the Rubicon rifle's shot was instantaneous. That makes sense now. Might I suggest adding a contrail effect then to make it obvious that its been fired? Also, why does a Rubicon rifle cost "4" but a Major Fighter Staff costs "5"? Considering the staff is useless compared to a Rubicon Rifle maybe the cost values should be changed....

Here are my suggestions for lessening the bland of level two. Just my opinion, take with a grain of salt. I personally love the level anyway.

- Cut out the back corridors, they distract from the main square where the battle should take place.
- Add in scenery from Marathon 2! There are no artistic licenses being taken, just use the scenery that Bungie used for their Lh'owon levels.

A special defender class enforcer class would be cool but I really want to use the scattergun to mow down tons of enemies! Just me though....

Excellent solution to the visibility problem by the way! Why not make the increased visual range item something that you can select in the class screen? If players don't want to use it they don't have to but if they do it'll allow for some great enforcer carnage. I like this idea, but don't make it obligatory because I like the screen size for all of the other classes.

Those three new weapons look AMAZING. I want a flamethrower so badly! Excellent work as usual.

With regards to your idea to redesign the title screen. I absolutely LOVE the background and the terminal text! Please keep those! But yes, a level select slider is probably a good idea. Why not just backup your current version of Marathon Freedom and play around with a slider? No messing up of stuff necessary, just test how it works.

If I may ask, what's the next battle you plan on making?

[Nitocris]

The M1 and M2 Enforcers are basically equal to each other in health and speed. The only difference is weapon choice and looks. There is no need to distinguish between them as classes. Make an option like you have for the BoBs to change their looks. Instead of choosing between short and long hair make it a choice between Tau Ceti Enforcers and Lh'owon Enforcers.

According to the physics models, yes. But haven't you noticed how strikingly similar T'fear's armor looks to the enforcers of M2? If you examine the hard death sprites of same, you see that under the skirts and robes, they look pretty much identical to him. My deduction: Full body armor. Compare this to the M1 enforcers, who, no matter how cool, look pretty frail.
Because they will be different models, they must be separate classes as well.

Ah okay, I did not realize the Rubicon rifle's shot was instantaneous. That makes sense now. Might I suggest adding a contrail effect then to make it obvious that its been fired? Also, why does a Rubicon rifle cost "4" but a Major Fighter Staff costs "5"? Considering the staff is useless compared to a Rubicon Rifle maybe the cost values should be changed....

Like I said, I haven't spent much time balancing the game. I think that would be more effectively done by the players collectively. To have me do it would be a waste of time and slow down releases considerably. If you have a suggestion as to a cost change of anything, as well as power increase/ decrease, just tell me.

Here are my suggestions for lessening the bland of level two. Just my opinion, take with a grain of salt. I personally love the level anyway.

- Cut out the back corridors, they distract from the main square where the battle should take place.
- Add in scenery from Marathon 2! There are no artistic licenses being taken, just use the scenery that Bungie used for their Lh'owon levels.

Unfortunately, there isn't that much scenery available that would be useful to me. Mostly lamps and puddles. Also, many pieces are clearly of Pfhor design and would fit poorly on a pre-slavery S'pht level. I'll think it over, though. Something I can use, surely there is.

A special defender class enforcer class would be cool but I really want to use the scattergun to mow down tons of enemies! Just me though....

I <3 Scattergun. I came up with a solution. I can have respawning enemies teleport out on death. This clears away bodies and allow for lengthier engagements.

Excellent solution to the visibility problem by the way! Why not make the increased visual range item something that you can select in the class screen? If players don't want to use it they don't have to but if they do it'll allow for some great enforcer carnage. I like this idea, but don't make it obligatory because I like the screen size for all of the other classes.

That's what I did. They come in two potencies. Available to certain classes.

Those three new weapons look AMAZING. I want a flamethrower so badly! Excellent work as usual.

Why thank you. The Fusion rifle (rubicon) and the MOW (evil) are the most powerful weapons available to the humans... and possibly in the game.
I've been disintegrating pfhor at such a rate today my eyes hurt from being blinded by all those glowing puddles.

If I may ask, what's the next battle you plan on making?

I don't know. Level making is as usual a pain. It's hard to come up with something that's not the last three levels all over again.
I made a last stand test level that I might turn into Tau Ceti. Waves of Pfhor storm you and your Marine buds, and they keep respawning.
It's like a bad dream, and I can't beat it! 80 fighters and 20 troopers in total, 8 and 2 max at the same time.
Even with the best equipment available, we fall eventually. It's hell.

[L'howon]

As far as S'pht scenery, I only have 2 words. Alien trashcans.

Perhaps cutting out the back halls is all that needs to be done though. Maybe throw in some lava, or some such if you really want to spice things up, or add a small central room in the middle to make things more "crowded"

[Winter_Wolf]

I like Lh'owon's suggestions for improving the 2nd level. Good suggestions!

Ok, the Enforcers have to be separate classes. However, there really is nothing to base the armor assessment on. In general, you will notice that all of the Pfhor in M1 look different to their counterparts in M2. This could be for a variety of reasons, four of which come to mind:

1. The M1 Pfhor have been on mission for a long time and have not received new equipment, meaning their stuff is antiquated.
2. The time elapsed between M1 and M2 was long enough for the Pfhor weaponry to have evolved and been modified.
3. The M1 Pfhor are from a different place than the M2 Pfhor (Pfhor weapons and armor from world X can easily look different from stuff from world y), meaning that geography is the reason for their visual differences.
4. The real reason. Bungie wanted to update the graphics.

Anyway you look at it, the different visuals don't change the stats. At best, I think you can say "Willful Class (Lh'owon) vs. Willful Class (Tau Ceti)" but changing their roles would not be based in lore. I don't like to leave the lore too much, for authenticity sake.

Regarding balance stuff. Okay, I'll make my first balance suggestion: change the cost of the Pfhor staff for the Enforcer to 2 down from 5. What does everyone think?

That Tau Ceti level sounds amazing. Why not make it so that there are more corridors for the play to create bottlenecks with? Honestly, I don't want to suggest strafing but the lack of strafing is probably your problem with the difficulty. You are basically a sitting duck for fast moving projectiles. Thats a death wish. No matter what, I'd like to see this Tau Ceti level!

Possible levels you could do that would be different:

1. Assault Levels. A storm the castle sort of level, where you advance into corridors rather than battle in a square map like in the 2nd and 3rd levels. This could be Bobs retaking parts of the Marathon, S'pht retaking Lh'owon, etc.
2. Rescue Levels. Imagine "The Rose" from M1. The Marine player has to rescue the trapped BoBs before the Pfhor kill them all. Sounds like a fun, Leela type level.
3. Escape Levels. The player has to flee from a given place before he is overrun. Maybe play as a pre-slavery S'pht escaping into Lh'owon's catacombs as the Pfhor advance behind him. There is a light screen of enemies blocking the way but if the player takes too long he is overrun. You would need "your" pattern buffers on this sort of level though.

Oh and have you changed your mind about the FPS hack?

[Nitocris]

I like Lh'owon's suggestions for improving the 2nd level. Good suggestions!

Ok, the Enforcers have to be separate classes. However, there really is nothing to base the armor assessment on. In general, you will notice that all of the Pfhor in M1 look different to their counterparts in M2. This could be for a variety of reasons, four of which come to mind:

1. The M1 Pfhor have been on mission for a long time and have not received new equipment, meaning their stuff is antiquated.
2. The time elapsed between M1 and M2 was long enough for the Pfhor weaponry to have evolved and been modified.
3. The M1 Pfhor are from a different place than the M2 Pfhor (Pfhor weapons and armor from world X can easily look different from stuff from world y), meaning that geography is the reason for their visual differences.
4. The real reason. Bungie wanted to update the graphics.

Those are all valid points, but did you even look at the reference I offered? As the M2 enforcer explodes you can clearly see it wears an armor distinctly akin to what T'fear wears in our only rendition of him, and I am convinced that it is not merely how his body looks. I suppose, however, that the M1 enforcers could have some personal shielding that would rival the benefit of said armor. If you're gonna spend your day nit picking and spanking Troopers and Hunter, you'd need a lot of protection. My current assumption is that this comes in better weaponry.

Anyway you look at it, the different visuals don't change the stats. At best, I think you can say "Willful Class (Lh'owon) vs. Willful Class (Tau Ceti)" but changing their roles would not be based in lore. I don't like to leave the lore too much, for authenticity sake.

And why not? I base my stats as much as I can on the Physics models, those I can find, but in the end, there are a lot of additional factors I have to take into account. I cannot have a clan who looks no more protected than a fighter be the equal to one I feel convinced is wearing some of the best armor available.
Not without a logical explanation. A shield would do. Should have that as an option.

Regarding balance stuff. Okay, I'll make my first balance suggestion: change the cost of the Pfhor staff for the Enforcer to 2 down from 5. What does everyone think?

Aaah... well, the Staff is the same whether you're an enforcer or a fighter. I could make the fighter class cheaper, though. But I think I'd rather need to make the Enforcers more expensive.

That Tau Ceti level sounds amazing. Why not make it so that there are more corridors for the play to create bottlenecks with? Honestly, I don't want to suggest strafing but the lack of strafing is probably your problem with the difficulty. You are basically a sitting duck for fast moving projectiles. Thats a death wish. No matter what, I'd like to see this Tau Ceti level!

I actually beat it, eventually. Using the MOW and nothing else to drain my credits, I fired blindly in arcs to reduce the number of incoming enemies and ran for cover as soon as I had to reload, once done, I would repeat. I died two times, and lost all marines but two. But I won. Of course, I updated the Marines a few tries earlier. Realized they should be Battleroid.

Possible levels you could do that would be different:

1. Assault Levels. A storm the castle sort of level, where you advance into corridors rather than battle in a square map like in the 2nd and 3rd levels. This could be Bobs retaking parts of the Marathon, S'pht retaking Lh'owon, etc.
2. Rescue Levels. Imagine "The Rose" from M1. The Marine player has to rescue the trapped BoBs before the Pfhor kill them all. Sounds like a fun, Leela type level.
3. Escape Levels. The player has to flee from a given place before he is overrun. Maybe play as a pre-slavery S'pht escaping into Lh'owon's catacombs as the Pfhor advance behind him. There is a light screen of enemies blocking the way but if the player takes too long he is overrun. You would need "your" pattern buffers on this sort of level though.

Oh and have you changed your mind about the FPS hack?

Those are good suggestions, however, it's more the physical construction that's a problem, not the ideas. Still, I'll try those out.

[thedoctor45]

Level suggestion: Lh'owon surface map (with natural rock formations etc... , maybe inside a canyon or similar to constrain movement and visibility...

I don´t know if this interferes with your idea of classic Marathon map-design or your mapping skills in general, but I would suggest to not just stick with squares as basic level elements - you have almost unlimited possibilities with the Unity3D technology - why not use it to bring some more visual variety/realism to the Marathon universe (you alreaady did that with gameplay)

[Nitocris]

Level suggestion: Lh'owon surface map (with natural rock formations etc... , maybe inside a canyon or similar to constrain movement and visibility...

I don´t know if this interferes with your idea of classic Marathon map-design or your mapping skills in general, but I would suggest to not just stick with squares as basic level elements - you have almost unlimited possibilities with the Unity3D technology - why not use it to bring some more visual variety/realism to the Marathon universe (you alreaady did that with gameplay)

I am limited to what my AI programming can handle. Differences in height poses new problems. You'll get to experience that soon, Im working on a level with a lot of different heights, but it scews up the bots so much that I think it might be restricted to that level only.

[thedoctor45]

I am limited to what my AI programming can handle. Differences in height poses new problems. You'll get to experience that soon, Im working on a level with a lot of different heights, but it scews up the bots so much that I think it might be restricted to that level only.

Well you don´t have to make the elevated areas climbable... (put some obstacles on the ground - rocks /some grass, small trees or bushes, maybe a shack - that would do in my opinion)
Also what about implementing liquids?

[Nitocris]

Well you don´t have to make the elevated areas climbable... (put some obstacles on the ground - rocks /some grass, small trees or bushes, maybe a shack - that would do in my opinion)
Also what about implementing liquids?

I see. Well, I hate when bots get stuck in stuff. But I'm actually way ahead of you, I suppose. That level I was alluding to has both a lot of liquid and vegetation.

There's liquid on Prodigal Sons.

[thedoctor45]

I see. Well, I hate when bots get stuck in stuff. But I'm actually way ahead of you, I suppose. That level I was alluding to has both a lot of liquid and vegetation.

There's liquid on Prodigal Sons.

Sounds great - any screenies?

I was actually talking about "swimmable" amouts of liquid... (will swimming be possible?)

[Nitocris]

Sounds great - any screenies?

I was actually talking about "swimmable" amouts of liquid... (will swimming be possible?)

Well, the Marine collage above was made on that level. It's an M? Sewage level.

Oh. I see. I was thinking about making an underwater level, but it would just be like a normal level with underwater feel. I don't think there will be swimming. As you know height is a concern. Plus, my liquid isn't as advanced as M2's.

[Winter_Wolf]

Fair enough on the Enforcers. I have always been a fan of the theory that there is a time lapse between M1 and M2 that means Pfhor in M1 are using antiquated technology compared to M2 Pfhor. Whatever you decide to do I think it'll be cool, though. In retrospect, why not just make M2 Enforcers stronger in health and more expensive? I know I just switched sides on this debate, but giving the M1 Enforcers a shield blows the old vs. new technology theory. I'd still like them to be both called Willful Class but at least the M2 Enforcer will be what you wanted him to be (a combat enforcer).

Ya, you're right on the Staff bit. I guess the Enforcer's weapons need to be stronger instead.

The Tau Ceti level sounds fun! I look forward to seeing it if you put it in! What's the status of Hunters in Marathon Freedom? They might make a great last wave on your Tau Ceti level... (just throwing ideas out there).

I'm really looking forward to future releases now!